Playtest One Discussion

[Thorgrimm-28]

I posted the US Jan event post. Let me know which type you guys like, the gfx version, or the data versions from before.



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Mav, I have been on MSN most of the day, but have not heard from you. I will process your sheet as is, but I can tell you right now, it will cause serious problems for you later on in the year.

I will be on MSN til 11PM. If I have not heard from you by then, I will just process your turn as is. I gotta keep the game moving forward.



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Mavikfelna:

sorry. I cranked off my turn during breaks in work so I'll admit I probably wasn't paying too close attention. I tried to set everything up to cover everything that was currently planned for the year but if I'm off substantially I suppose I'll have to live with it.

--Mav

[Thorgrimm-28]

NP bud. That's why I tried to remain online most of the day yesterday. Since we cannot hook up in chat, the problem is your Lifting Body acquisitions, it will break the bank in Jan alone.

Give that a mulling over, and try to get back to me before 2PM today.

@Tssha, you have not turned in a sheet for Feb as of now. Are you still in, out, or RL problems?



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Mavikfelna:

Crap, I see what I did. I was looking at cost as Wu, not Ipu. That makes a huge difference.

New orders on the way.

--Mav

[Thorgrimm-28]

Quote from: Mavikfelna on April 11, 2014, 12:54:08 pm

Crap, I see what I did. I was looking at cost as Wu, not Ipu. That makes a huge difference.

New orders on the way.

--Mav


Yep, and this is why I said it was urgent!!



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Tssha:

Sorry, I assumed I was ahead of the others for some reason and had to wait for them to catch up. Turn submitted.

I also acknowledge the above written. Not that I've ever submitted orders that way. Still, I never will.

[Thorgrimm-28]

Quote from: Tssha on April 11, 2014, 12:55:42 pm

Sorry, I assumed I was ahead of the others for some reason and had to wait for them to catch up. Turn submitted.

I also acknowledge the above written. Not that I've ever submitted orders that way. Still, I never will.


NP bud. Just wanted to make sure you were ok, and not having problems.



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Mav, have you sent in your new orders yet?



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Mavikfelna:

yep. says it was successfully sent at 11:59AM. Let me know if you want me to resend it

[Thorgrimm-28]

Quote from: Mavikfelna on April 11, 2014, 12:57:50 pm

yep. says it was successfully sent at 11:59AM. Let me know if you want me to resend it


Thanks bud. I just got it. My email has been going nuts for the last four hours going up and down! I will get it processed ASAP!

I hope all of you players do not mind, but I posted the 'naut rosters over at Aurora.



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Ok guys, I have been thinking. I know I know, that's dangerous! ;D

I think the possibility of adding some sort of Budget 'exchange' may be in order. By that I mean exchanging a variable amount of Wu's for either Rp's or Ipu's.

This could reflect overtime at the factories, or cracking the whip on the eggheads. Either way, I am thinking of a 5 to 1 exchange ratio, 5 Wu's for either 1 Ipu or 1 Rp. Up to 20% of your current Wu Budget.

Now, this is a mandatory question for the playtesters to answer, is this a good idea or not? Give reasons for or against.



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Tssha:

I think more flexibility is good. It all depends on how badly you need those wealth units, versus the Ipu's.

Of course, the Wu's to Rp's could potentially be unbalancing. If I were to dump a bunch of surplus Wu's into Rp's it could get ridiculous how fast you'd shoot up the tech tree. That's assuming you have nothing better to do with the wealth units.

Unfortunately at this time I've yet to run short on wealth units so I'm not sure how helpful this feedback can be. It's a good idea if you have too many Wu's for your program and need more of the other stuff. It can also come in handy if you have upkeep costs you can't pay because you foolishly overspent your Rp's (in future versions). So, in that way it'd make things a bit less painful for the guy who gets a little overenthusiastic with his research and can't afford to maintain his teams (again, in future versions).

So, sorry I can't be that helpful about how it'd work out. I just have no idea.

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by MrAnderson:

It'd be nice for the Wu and Ipu but research I don't know...

I personally am overflowing with Wu and Ipu but research is really low. To be honest, I kind of like having to plan ahead, and later on in other scenarios where we can make money ourselves, it's be kinda cheap to saturate research and have 1000 teams working on every project.

[Thorgrimm-28]

Tssha, you have provided great feedback. You do not have to have much experience to have an opinion about something, and your concern about the Rp situation is exactly what I am uncomfortable with.

Unlike most other designers, I value the feedback from my testers and players. So if you have an idea, or doubt about something, I encourage you to voice it. How else can I make the best game I can?

The Rp conversion is the one problem I can see in the idea. Maybe a higher cost ratio? Like 10 to 1?

As for the Wu budget, right now it seems a lot, but once you start those extremely expensive programs, you will prolly look back on the days of too much money!



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Mr Anderson I hope you don't mind, but I spiced up your News post a bit.

Well, when you ramp up your purchase of Rockets you will not be so overflowing with Ipu's.

And yes, the Rp thing is the problem I have with it too, that's why I need all you to give me your thoughts on it.

Too much cash can be cured in one of two ways:

1.) Lower the monthly budget.
2.) Raise the price of things and require a WU AND Ipu expenditure for hardware.

Comments?



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Gav, I hope you do not mind my updating your Sputnik post.



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Gav:

As long as it is only in small amounts otherwise it may unbalance the game. Either way , lets test it and if it does not work , then we can scrap it. Also I am assuming that this would take place at the end/start of the year ? once per year only

And thanks for the template !

[Thorgrimm-28]

Quote from: Gav on April 11, 2014, 01:05:59 pm

As long as it is only in small amounts otherwise it may unbalance the game. Either way , lets test it and if it does not work , then we can scrap it. Also I am assuming that this would take place at the end/start of the year ? once per year only

And thanks for the template !


Gav, after thinking on it a bit more I was thinking of a 10 to 1 for Rp's, and a 5 to 1 for Ipu's. It can only be taken once per year, and only if the resource being exchanged for is currently exhausted. Up to 10% of the current Wu budget, and as long as the requisite Wu's are in stock.

This way it can only be done once, and only then if the player has run out of that resource. I like this form of the idea, since it can represent an emergency, and temporary, budget increase.

I think in this form it will not replace good planning, but it can help mitigate really bad random events or die rolls on the missions.

What brought it on was the way Mav's space program was nearly brought to its knees by that one bad die roll. It highlighted the need for something like this.

How does this sound to you folks?

You are quite welcome for the template. I hope to see more Sov fluff posts now, though!



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Haegan 2005:

I gave this some thought. My concern is balance. There is the conversion cost as a limiter, but we could also limit the amount that can be purchased to a percentage of the Year start RP. Or both methods at once for that matter.

As always, the budget that we get is only increased by PP gained during the previous year. Large expenditures of anything means your out of something and its only going to be replaced at a limited rate each year. Large scale conversions of WU or IUU will increase your research, but leave you potentially crippled for years. Unless you manage to really get the PP rolling in, and even that will take years to catch up.

Assuming a 10 to 1 conversion and a starting yearly budget of 720 Wu, you can get 72 RP if you convert it fully. It sounds like a lot, but it will disappear rapidly if your spending it on LEO, MEO, etc. At 5 teams on a MEO, it costs 60 RP a month if i read it right. So a full blown convert is a desperation move. If your going to do it, you either need a lot more funds to convert, or use it to finish a research item for a month if your a few RP short.

A 5 to 1 ratio conversion provides 144 RP, which is 2 and a half months worth of RP for a MEO. A wee bit better, but now you have the rocket, and no way to buy it.... :bl

Now, no one has seen what potential funding could be like 10 years in...
But I suspect it will not be that much more per year. My estimate is 30 to 400 PP spent on WU, RP, and IUU gains. I also suspect that much of it will have been spent on RP!!! lol

The ability to spend WU on IUU, or cash in IUU for WU seems to be much less unbalancing in the long run to me.

After thinking about it, if a player is willing to take the risk of blowing his financial reserve on RP for what seems like a only mediocre gain and a long term tight WU budget, then why not? 5 for one is only marginally crippling, 10 to one is extreme and no player who can do math would even try that exchange rate. At least not in the early game!

After having thought about it, and only being 2 years in mind you, I vote for 5 to 1 conversion to RP. Anything greater simply makes it too expensive to really use without potentially crippling the player in the long term.

As a caveat, if i need those 3 or 4 RP to let that extra team finish working on the MEO, then its a doable exchange at either rate.

Yes, it's really late and I am rambling badly. Good night all!

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Haegan 2005:

Now, if its meant as a emergency measure and limited by a rule as to when it can be used then your thought on that makes sense Ken.

I don't know what straights Mav's boom did to him, aside from Pad repairs and a dent in the PP generation, but how much would he had to have had converted to repair that disaster and how would that have left his WU reserve?

If it would have used up close to half, then the conversion may be too expensive.

Again, I am rambling. Ciya at lunch Ken.

[Thorgrimm-28]

Quote from: Haegan 2005 on April 11, 2014, 01:10:02 pm

Now, if its meant as a emergency measure and limited by a rule as to when it can be used then your thought on that makes sense Ken.

I don't know what straights Mav's boom did to him, aside from Pad repairs and a dent in the PP generation, but how much would he had to have had converted to repair that disaster and how would that have left his WU reserve?

If it would have used up close to half, then the conversion may be too expensive.

Again, I am rambling. Ciya at lunch Ken.


Yeah, it's meant as an emergency measure, and is limited to 10% of the budget and once per year.

The one die roll cost him nearly 40 PP's, by last count, due to that bad roll. We were neck and neck in our race, and he would have garnered the PP's for first with animals, not me.

Between the mandatory scrubbed launches, the forced rebuilding, and loss of IUUs to that, along with the need to scrub missions due to not having the IUU's to pay for the HW needed in those launches, his Agency ground to a halt.

And this was all due to one bad die roll. It was not the loss of the rocket that killed him, it was the loss of the Pad and the loss of 50% of the Safety to his LEO Rocket Program that damn near did in his Agency. His LEO Rocket Safety at the time of the explosion was over 90%...

Since, as you well know, budgets are very tight in the beginning, having to spend the extra IUU's and RP's to just regain what he lost put him behind in the race.

And as you have already pointed out, it takes a LONG time to recover from any possible shortfall of resources.



Cheers, Thor

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Haegan 2005:

I have had some thoughts based off of what I see of the game so far.

Running basic missions, even if they are not pushing the edge, is crucial to generate PP each year. Even a basic satellite shot with a LEO, satellite, and a Comm package will net me 2 PP each at the end of the year resulting in me being able to increase my budgets by that amount. Last year i spent it all on increasing my RP budget as I feel that that is my most crucial budget category at the moment.

If you have any thoughts or observations that you have thought of, please post them!

[Thorgrimm-28]

Originally posted by Mavikfelna:

Yea, even loosing the pad wasn't that bad, it was the mandatory scrubs and the loss of safety and all that lost PP that put me way behind and the US way ahead.

I like the idea of being able to covert WU to IUU or RP and I would even support the reverse as well, if someone was desperate enough. 5 to 1 for any conversion seems fair if it's limited to 10% of total budget in the converting area. After all, pouring resources (money, research or industry) at a problem has been an effective way of moving it forward in the past.

--Mav

[Thorgrimm-28]

Quote from: Mavikfelna on April 11, 2014, 01:14:49 pm

Yea, even loosing the pad wasn't that bad, it was the mandatory scrubs and the loss of safety and all that lost PP that put me way behind and the US way ahead.

I like the idea of being able to covert WU to IUU or RP and I would even support the reverse as well, if someone was desperate enough. 5 to 1 for any conversion seems fair if it's limited to 10% of total budget in the converting area. After all, pouring resources (money, research or industry) at a problem has been an effective way of moving it forward in the past.

--Mav


Mav, you make a very good point about the usage of resources, and we do have an extensive resource conversion system in BTS! full. ;D

Guys, I REALLY appreciate your responses. They have given me plenty of food for thought.

So, I think come Y.E.S., and before we begin '59, we will implement the followng:

If a player is out of a certain resource, and other resources are available, once per Fiscal Year he may convert 10% of a resources unmodified budget for the year to another resource. Listed below are the conversion rates.

1.) 10 Wu's = 1 Rp
2.) 5 Wu's = 1 Iuu
3.) 10 Iuu's = 1 Rp
4. 5 Iuu's = 1 Wu

How does this sound?

@Haegan, you are absolutely correct. Those sat launches are the easiest way to increase your PP haul. I STRONGLY recommend every player, once he gets a good LEO-OS-CP combo, to get in the habit of launching one per month.

It is not a fast way to gain PPs, but it is a steady way, and will help mitigate any losses Random Events and bad die rolls can inflict.



Cheers, Thor